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Disabling visual mode

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Forums: Index > The Cathedral > Disabling visual mode


Was wondering if we could finally get everyone's opinion on this finally. From my understanding we need at least all the admins at least to weigh in on this in order for Wikia staff to disable it.

And from what I've noticed myself, every time someone does a copy and paste using visual mode it slaps a bunch of html onto the page with it that can be seen in edit history and source mode. I for one want to nix it. Great Mara (talk) 03:24, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

OpinionsEdit

YesEdit

  1. I'm in favor of getting rid of this editing mode. Great Mara (talk) 03:24, July 13, 2013 (UTC)
  2. Even if the "template inside template" error is fixed, the code explosion is still the concern. -- Inpursuit (talk) 04:27, July 13, 2013 (UTC)
  3. I admit, being a Monobook user, I am not familiar with the mode itself, but I can see the problems it causes clear as day.--Otherarrow (talk) 16:45, July 13, 2013 (UTC)
  4. Please get rid of the Visual mode, it's useless and isn't as customizable as normal coding is, and when I used it starting out as editing on the wiki, it caused more problems than it fixed while editing entries, while Source is more streamlined and efficient. BOXN (talk) 21:38, July 19, 2013 (UTC)
  5. I don't see the need for it. Yunie X (talk) 17:49, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

NoEdit

NeutralEdit

  1. I use visual mode a decent amount actually, although I am not opposed to it being taken out. Maybe it will cut down on useless and stupid trivia edits. Maybe it will make it harder for people who are not familiar with this kind of stuff to edit the wikia when they happen to see a mistake or have something quick to add. « Zahlzeit 16:11, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

CommentsEdit

MrRaui‎ has already shown sign of using visual mode to edit with some strange coding such as changing color of the section header and nesting the stat template with double apostrophe (italicize). I don't want to complain to him directly with these issues since visual mode user usually does not realize the problem they're caused to the source code, until we disable the visual mode for them. -- Inpursuit (talk) 06:12, July 19, 2013 (UTC)

It would probably be best to politely tell them politely what the problem is and why it has ill-effects in the meantime. I guess we still need to get Bluer's and Zahl's input on this in the meantime though. Great Mara (talk) 06:25, July 19, 2013 (UTC)

I use Monobook while editing and if I had to look using the Wikia skin, I already disabled the Visual Editor. I wouldn't mind getting the Visual Mode disabled entirely because of the problems it caused with extra characters and erratic behaviors, plus I believe if an editor wants to contribute s/he might as well familiarize him/herself with wiki coding. Also, from what I read in another wikia that had requested this back in 2012 - Harry Potter Wiki - Wikia refuses to have it disabled because it would "remove their core functionality of the Wikia service". Has the Wikia staff been informed of this proposal before? BLUER一番 08:25, July 19, 2013 (UTC)

Not for this wiki as far as I know. The visual mode is disabled on Final Fantasy Wiki and Nukapedia for sure. I think Inpursuit may have linked a Dr. Who wiki the last time we discussed this. Great Mara (talk) 08:43, July 19, 2013 (UTC)
Well, the old discussion in question: [1] . -- Inpursuit (talk) 09:01, July 19, 2013 (UTC)

Another brilliant example why we should disable visual mode asap [2]. Although we may tell our registered user to disable visual mode in their preferences, it is enabled by default to anonymous editors. -- Inpursuit (talk) 02:25, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Update 1Edit

I've contacted Wikia on the matter and this is what they have to say:

"Thanks for contacting Wikia. We've found that the Visual Editor makes it easier for new users to join a wiki and start editing, which is critical for a wiki's growth and health. You can always change your personal preference for editing. You can also encourage users to disable RTE in their preferences if they personally don't appreciate the feature. Hope this helps. Happy editing!"
—Sean McGilvray (semanticdrifter), Wikia Community Support, Trust & Safety , Jul 19 03:20 pm (UTC)

There's dubiousness in how critical Visual Editor/RTE is for a wiki's growth and health. And by Inpursuit's feedback it doesn't look too good. If the concern is the easiness for wiki users to start editing, I think an editor wikicode guide or a cheatsheet might be better to discourage people from using the RTE. BLUER一番 04:16, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Is it revoking Visual Mode for a Wikia project must be done by Wikia staff individually? If it's not possible to be done by ourselves, the only way would be setting up our own policy to discourage the use of Visual Mode and block user (temporarily) for repeated practice with Visual Mode which cause unfavorable result to the article source. -- Inpursuit (talk) 04:36, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Update 2Edit

After some search, the other Wikia projects which have Visual Mode disabled like FF Wiki made the request to Wikia staff in 2009 when the editor was simply called "Rich Text Editor" or RTE. After another Google search, I found that we're not alone. The requests to ban Visual mode were also made by Harry Potter and One Piece in 2012 fall but failed. I've received a reply from Tardis Wiki admin CzechOut and it seems it's still possible (albeit very difficult) to ask the Wikia staff to ban the Visual Mode on Megami Tensei Wiki but we need more active users to support the proposal and point out the shortcomings of the visual mode (although I believe all the cons have already been reported by users of other projects). Considering the effort the Tardis Wiki has put to convince Wikia, I think it's more realistic we propose the policy to discourage any practice with visual mode which could ruin the source code. -- Inpursuit (talk) 02:55, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

This would require us to start working on a series of Help Pages and How-to Guides on how to work on a Source mode Editor. A team or at least two editors should be assembled to work on the editing policies and guidelines in the wiki. BLUER一番 01:08, August 12, 2013 (UTC)

Draft of Visual Mode policyEdit

Visual Mode is a visualization gadget of the New Wikia Skin, a.k.a. Oasis Skin, which helps editor to edit article and preview the result instantly without fiddling with Wikitext, a.k.a. "Wiki Markups", in the Source Mode. While it is helpful to novice of Wiki, Visual Mode has its own problems so it is generally not welcomed by old users of Wiki.

Megami Tensei Wiki does not prohibit the use of Visual Mode under one condition: the submitted content does not ruin the code or format of the Source Mode. Usually Visual Mode users would not realize the damage they have done to the source, so they will be noticed of the issue by other experienced editor and is advised to avoid it the next time they edit. If the notice is ignored and the user maintains the similar pattern of editing, it will be treated as vandalism and an account block will be considered.

There is also case that Visual Mode is automatically disabled due to complex coding in the Source Mode. Any attempt to "fix" it with the sole purpose to enable Visual Mode again will not be tolerated as well. In any case, familiarizing with Wikitext is highly recommended because the functionality of Visual Mode is still buggy and immature at the current stage. Wikitext is not as intimidating as it seems, many new user can easily learn the basic of the markups within day by imitating the existing code in the Source Mode and previewing your edit.

Examples of bad code generated by Visual ModeEdit

The following examples are the most typical problems of Visual Mode. In order to avoid such code explosion, user of Visual Mode are best advised to check the Source Mode after making any edit in the Visual Mode before submitting the content.

  • Replacing internal link with full URL:

[[Megami Tensei article]]
Becomes:
[http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Megami_Tensei_article Megami Tensei article]

  • Adding unnecessary HTML codes to the section header:

===Section header===
Becomes:
<span class="mw-headline" id="Section_header" style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; ">Section header</span><span class="editsection" style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; ">[http://megamitensei.wikia.com/index.php?title=DWM_438&action=edit&section=5 edit]</span>

  • Replacing template nested inside another template:

{{P4 Character|englishva ={{w|Nicole Karrer}}}}
Becomes:
{{P4 Character|englishva =[[wikipedia:Nicole Karrer|Nicole Karrer]]}}

Update 3Edit

From what I see in Wikia is that there's a discussion going on about them disabling the current Visual Editor in place for a new one as per here. BLUER一番 00:58, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

From my experience on Wikipedia, the new VisualEditor is slightly better than Wikia's current Visual Mode. Only Slightly. -- Inpursuit (talk) 02:23, October 23, 2013 (UTC)
Do tell us more. BLUER一番 03:28, October 23, 2013 (UTC)
c.f. Wikipedia:VisualEditor (VE). Simply put, the aforementioned problems with Wikia's current Visual Mode editor aren't present in the new Visual Editor. But the VE gained quite some controversy in its initial launch due to lack of communication with the community from the staffers. Mostly for its mandatory activation unless disabled in user preferences. -- Inpursuit (talk) 04:55, October 23, 2013 (UTC)
It works okay, I had trouble with tables a bit until I realize you could right click on stuff lol. That said, I do wonder if the editor can invoke our pre-built Gallery template when people want to create Galleries, or our table designs when people create tables. BLUER一番 06:35, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

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